Christ-Mass

[Sissy]

We have two holy festivals declared by the Catholic Church.

March 25 - Feast of the Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary

And exactly nine months later ….

December 25 – Christmas (Christ Mass)




Since we know that our Lord and Savior was not born during the winter solstice ……………
Who’s “christ” is Christ-Mass celebrating??????












Jeremiah 10
1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.
7 Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock (tree) is a doctrine of vanities.


Can you take these pagan practices and turn them into a Christian thing?

Deuteronomy 7
25 The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God.
26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.

Now you may say, “Wait a minute. That’s talking about not taking the gold and silver off a pagan idol and bring it into your house. We don’t take gold and silver from a pagan idol and decorated our tree with it. ”

Fair enough. After all, I’m sure your tree is not decorated with actual gold and silver, but is an imitation of gold and silver.
So, I guess it is OK just to “imitate” a pagan ritual without actually using the substance from an actual idol itself.

Or is it?

Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God:

Here’s a group of folks that thought it would be cool to worship GOD like the other nations worshipped their gods. After all, some of their worshiping practices were kinda neat!!!
But God said we should not do so.



“Put Christ back in Christmas”
Why? He was never part of pagan idolatry to begin with.

[Sissy]

Kinda neat, huh?!!!!
Oooooo Awwwww!!!!

Let's do this too and slap the name of our GOD on it!

[JADE]

Can you take these pagan practices and turn them into a Christian thing?

Interesting read, and yes I can. Because everything is of God and I give praise to all that is God. I don't worship the tree and it is not a representation or idol of a god or God. But God created it and it is only an adornment.

I know you have a strong belief against these things and I have a weak belief for these things.(if I don't wish to put up a tree, its of no real importance to me, if I do, its of no real significance of my Christian belief) It is no different than to dress up a bit nicer when one goes to Church. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.

But the attack against Christians is why there is an attack against Christmas. And while I accept that many of the silly things we see that some folks think represent Christians at Christmas don't, it is the attack that I resent.

If you are truly against Christmas and all the trappings, then I expect you are also against the symbol of the Cross. It does not represent Christ or Christians. If anything, it represents the murder of our Lord. If he were hung by a rope, would we have the noose as our symbol of how they killed our Lord?

So I understand and respect what you are saying and what you believe. I'm not even trying to say that what I believe is correct, because I accept that being just a man, I am prone to missunderstanding what the Word really says.

But I question what I think God is saying to me and I really question what man says to me. :nond

[Invisible_2_no1]

So I guess the bigger question would be, do we just accept it, do we reject it, or do we tolerate it.

Why?

[JADE]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Mom

So I guess the bigger question would be, do we just accept it, do we reject it, or do we tolerate it.

Why?

Good question and one I truly have no absolute answer to. I can only do what I feel God is directing me to do, both in his Word and in the spirit he sends through me. So the best answer I can come up with is, a little bit of everything.

[Sissy]

Hi Jade,

Thanks for your honest thoughts. We need more of that instead of just saying what we think everyone wants us to say.
Love ya brother!!

Trust me, I don't get all bent out of shape because people celebrate Christmas or have a Christmas tree. It's a decission each individual has to make, and that decission should be from the heart and not because of what others think of them.

For me, personally, I get a little more uncomfortable each year I study this.
But that's just me. If you invited me over for Christmas dinner, I would not stomp out of your home screeming that you are a heretic because you had a Christmas tree!!!!!

For this thread I am just sharing some of the reasons that make me uncomfortable.

The real question each individual should ask is:
Do I celebrate Christmas because that's what most Christians do? Or, do I celebrate Christmas because I REALLY believe it is a legitimate religious festival of the true Christ?
Have Christians really tried to look into this Christmas stuff????

[Sissy]

Who tried to make Christmas “Christian”?????

Before Pope Pius XII’s liturgical reform, the celebration of the Mass was forbidden, except on Christmas night.

In the Apostolic Constitution Christus Dominus (1953) and the Motu Propio Sacram Communionem (1957) Pius XII permitted the celebration of Mass at other times.

That’s how “Christmas” got it’s name – Christ Mass.

Keep in mind that Mass is the Catholic celebration of the Eucharistic.

emphasis mine:

The Council of Trent reaffirmed traditional teaching that the Mass is not just a recreation of the Last Supper, or a memorialization of the institution of the Holy Eucharist, but rather the same Sacrifice of Calvary offered in an unbloody manner: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross ; only the manner of offering is different. And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and offered in an unbloody manner... this sacrifice is truly propitiatory"
- (Doctrina de ss. Missae sacrificio, c. 2, quoted in Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1367).

Does that sound like it is the “birth” of Christ being celebrated????

So, where did all this celebration of “birth” come from???
Same place – the Catholic Church.

The apostles never celebrated it, so it was not a tradition started by the early church.
In fact, there is no mention of any early church celebrating it until the 4th century.
Constantine kept this “feast of the nativity” to keep the pagan festival. He slapped on the name of Christ, and said, “There, now both Christians and pagans will be happy.”
His intentions may have been noble to unite the people and keep the peace. But I am reminded of a quote:
“The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
Just another step in the plan of anti-christ to unite the world under a religion that will satisfy all. A way to unite, instead of separating as God told us to do.


Yuletide is a pagan sabbat (Sabbath) which occurs at the Winter Solstice.

There are some pagan myths that originate from Christian stories. Such as Noah’s flood.
There are lots of distortions of this story that developed over time in different cultures, but the original story was from God.

But Christmas did not originate this way.
The “feast of the nativity” started long before the birth of Christ happened. It was a festival celebrating the birth (actually reincarnation, of the sun god) and had been celebrated on the Winter Solstice long before Jesus came in the flesh.
It’s origin is not Jewish or Christian. It is strictly pagan.

[JADE]

For me, personally, I get a little more uncomfortable each year I study this.
But that's just me.

I hear ya and I do also. But I look at the enjoyment I got from Christmas when I was a child and don't want to take it from other children because I have learned more. Sometimes I think as we learn more about things we are too quick to want to "save" others from some of our own mistakes or silly beliefs. And in doing so we steal from them some of the childlike ways that God so loves.

So to me its a no harm no foul attitude and I'll continue feeding the milk to those that are not quite ready for the meat. And if those that can handle the meat get a bit of milk splashed on them, I'm sure they'll get over it or even enjoy a slight or temporary change of diet. Cuz milk will do a body good. :thup2

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Sissy

Have Christians really tried to look into this Christmas stuff????

More and more as the years pass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree


I won't sing O Tannenbaum, but I will sing 'O the Wonderful Cross.