Serpent Seed

[Sissy]

First let’s look at WHY some think that Eve had sex with Satan.

Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.



Take a look at one of the definitions that STRONG gives for the word touch.
H5060
A primitive root; properly to touch, that is, lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphemistically, to lie with a woman); by implication to reach (figuratively to arrive, acquire); violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.): - beat, (X be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.

This is the same word used in other scriptures that refer to lying with a woman.
For example:
Provers 6:29 So he that goeth in to his neighbor's wife; whosoever toucheth (H5060) her shall not be innocent.

Another example:
Genesis 20:6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch (H5060) her.

• This was when Abraham said that Sarah was his sister instead of his wife for fear that he would be killed. So king Abimelech took Sarah.
  But God told Abimelech in a dream that he would see death because Sarah was the wife of Abraham. Now, Abimelech did not know Sarah was his wife until God told him in this dream. Abimelech was a little upset that Abraham had lied to him about Sarah. Luckily, Abimelech had not yet had sex with Sarah, and after the dream from God he let Sarah return to Abraham.
  But the point is just to show how the word (H5060) is used elsewhere in scripture.

To understand this theory you have to first realize that the “tree” is not a plant with fruit growing on it. This “tree” is a metaphor for Satan just like the other “tree” (tree of life) is a metaphor for Christ.

So, now that we can see that this word can mean “lying with a woman”, let’s move on to why some think Cain & Abel were twins with two different fathers.

[Sissy]

Here is one of the scriptures the theory uses to support that Cain and Abel were twins.

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Here we see that Eve’s conception will be multiplied (ie more than one conception).



Genesis 4
1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
2 And she again bore his brother Abel.

Here, we look again at the definitions from STRONG.
And she again
H3254
A primitive root; to add or augment (often adverbially to continue to do a thing): - add, X again, X any more, X cease, X come more, + conceive again, continue, exceed, X further, X gather together, get more, give moreover, X henceforth, increase (more and more), join, X longer (bring, do, make, much, put), X (the, much, yet) more (and more), proceed (further), prolong, put, be [strong-] er, X yet, yield.


If we take the word “touch” to mean that Eve had sex with Satan, then we now see that she also had sex with Adam.
“And she again” is used to describe a birthing process that continues. In other words, it’s the same birthing process in which another child is also born at the same time. Thus, Cain and Abel are twins from the same birthing process.


But still, how does the theory arrive at the conclusion that Cain was the offspring of Satan instead of Adam?

The plot thickens.
More to come.

[Sissy]

Genesis 3
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Between thy seed and her seed.

If “seed” means offspring (child), then Satan also has an offspring (child).

So, who could Satan’s offspring (child) be???

Here’s a clue:

1John 3
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

[Sissy]

thy seed and her seed


Let’s talk about this one some more.

We are told that there would be enmity between the two.
This had an immediate fulfillment with Cain & Abel.

But there is an even deeper prophetic meaning here.

The “seed” of the woman would ultimately refer to Christ.

One thing to remember about Christ is that He had no human father.

So, who will the “seed” of Satan ultimately be?
Could we safely assume that the anti-christ will also have no human father?

[Invisible_2_no1]

The million dollar question Sissy;

Originally Posted by Sissy

So, who will the “seed” of Satan ultimately be?
Could we safely assume that the anti-christ will also have no human father?

If we look to satan, he wishes to copy Christ.

He will try with miracles, illusions and grandeur of controlling things that will make him appear to be the savior of the world.

He will have angels of "light" with him, to appear coming with his army of good.

He will appear to have the un-holy trinity, the father (satan) the son (antichrist) and the Holy Spirit (false prophet).

He will even appear to have died and rose again (fatal wound and recover).

I'm looking, but maybe I've missed Scripture that might support him being born of woman as was Christ...

?

[Sissy]

Yep, it's a millon dollar!!!

I don't have a direct answer.
But we have always heard that Satan always tries to copy-cat God. In order for the copy-cat to be correct Satan would have to have a son born of a woman.
(This could bring up yet another thread --- why do folks say Satan copy-cats God? Other than wanting to be worshiped, when did Satan ever copy-cat God?)

Here is one scripture that may support that the anti-christ (the unholy son of the unholy trinity) might be born of a woman.

Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

By this verse there will be more than one ("they"), just as we are told that there will be many anti-christs.
But there seems to be one in particular that we refer to as THE anti-christ.
My best guess is that there may be many hybrids, but only one will be the son of Satan. The other hybrids will be from fallen angels as in the days of Noah.

• Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Then again, the whole theory could be a bunch of crap. But it's good to know about it anyway.

One thing we can't deny is that according to Genesis 3:15 Satan does have a "seed".

[Stan]

Originally Posted by Sissy

Yep, it's a millon dollar!!!

I don't have a direct answer.
But we have always heard that Satan always tries to copy-cat God. In order for the copy-cat to be correct Satan would have to have a son born of a woman.

According to who?

Why would that have to be a part of his M.O. knowing that there is only ONE begotten of God?

He would only, then, have to claim to be the Christ.
Because the Christ is God!

Right?

[Sissy]

Originally Posted by Stan

According to who?

Not me.

Why would that have to be a part of his M.O. knowing that there is only ONE begotten of God?

It doesn't. That's why I asked why some say that Satan always copy-cats God.

He would only, then, have to claim to be the Christ.
Because the Christ is God!

Right?

Right, Christ is God. But so is the Father and Holy Spirit.


I also agree with you that "trinity" may not be a word that would come close to defining God.
We are told of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; but that's just what we are told about. To claim that the Godhead can ONLY consist of the 3 may be a little limiting. But we do know that there are at least 3.

Let's face it, it would be rather vain for us mere mortals to try and define or limit God to our feeble understanding.
I have no problem with those that think there are 3 "persons" in the Godhead, or those that think it is 1 "person" manifesting in 3 different ways.
I can see how both sides are arrived at. But at the same time I can see problems with both. I think both try to limit to a set definition.

In the same manner, I think some try to limit Satan also.

[Invisible_2_no1]

Originally Posted by Sissy

In the same manner, I think some try to limit Satan also.

Agreed.

But we DO know satan cannot outsmart God.

Satan does have his limits.

Luke 10:17-20
And the seventy returned again with joy, saying,
Lord,
even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
And he said unto them,
I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Behold,
I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions,
and over all the power of the enemy:
and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not,
that the spirits are subject unto you;
but rather rejoice,
because your names are written in heaven.

Revelation 12:7-10
And there was war in heaven:
Michael and his angels fought against the dragon;
and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not;
neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out,
that old serpent,
called the Devil,
and Satan,
which deceiveth the whole world:
he was cast out into the earth,
and his angels were cast out with him.
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,
Now is come salvation,
and strength,
and the kingdom of our God,
and the power of his Christ:
for the accuser of our brethren is cast down,
which accused them before our God day and night.

Satan and his demons may have powers here on earth, but they don't have as much as the heavenlies do.

Our promise is here;

Romans 8:38-39
For I am persuaded,
that neither death,
nor life,
nor angels,
nor principalities,
nor powers,
nor things present,
nor things to come,
Nor height,
nor depth,
nor any other creature,
shall be able to separate us from the love of God,
which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


In the battle to come, the battle will be tough.

I hold onto the promise given in Romans.

*Another side thought, is satan a creature?

[Sissy]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Mom

*Another side thought, is satan a creature?

Another good question.
Some think that Satan is not a created being, but is just all evil thoughts.

Personally, my understanding is that he was created.

We have this in Ezekiel:

• Ezekiel 28
  11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
  12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
  13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
  14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
  15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
  16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
  17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
  18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
  19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

It seems that pride was his downfall.
He was created pretty special.
I think perhaps that he thought because he was so special that he DESERVED more.

Just goes to show that being special ain't all it's cracked up to be! :laug

[Stan]

{hehe}

Too funny.

Not me.

Just checking.

I have no problem with those that think there are 3 "persons" in the Godhead, or those that think it is 1 "person" manifesting in 3 different ways.

I have a problem with the former, but I think I can make a very good case for the Father and the Son and The Holy Spirit as One.


I found a cool link for further studies....


Especially The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs


Go to the 'index'


http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/fbe/fbe004.htm

[Invisible_2_no1]

So, were satan's 'children' those of Cain's descendants?

How, or in what way can we prove this?

[Stan]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Mom

So, were satan's 'children' those of Cain's descendants?

How, or in what way can we prove this?

I am of the opinion they are.
We can document it by letting scripture interpret scripture.

[Invisible_2_no1]

Originally Posted by Stan

I am of the opinion they are.
We can document it by letting scripture interpret scripture.

Well, let's pick it up from after Cain left the presence of the Lord. Let's do some digging as to what happened to Cain and his relatives.

Here;
Genesis 4:16-17
And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD,
and dwelt in the land of Nod,
on the east of Eden.
And Cain knew his wife;
and she conceived,
and bare Enoch:
and he builded a city,
and called the name of the city,
after the name of his son, Enoch.


I did some research to see what I could come up with about Nod and Enoch, the places. Interestingly enough, Nod means shaking, or trembling. That means "fear" to me, or something unstable. Enoch means disciplined or dedicated.

*Taken from the Condensed Bible Cyclopedia

09. DAUGHTERS OF MEN

There are only two families in the ages before the flood, the sons of God and the daughters of men (Ge 6:1-8). The descendants of Seth were the sons of God (Ge 4:25; 5:3-32). There was only one other family (Ge 4:9-23). Therefore, the daughters of men were descendants of Cain.

08. SONS OF GOD

The descendants of Seth were called by the name of the Lord (Ge 4:25-26). This is not true in reference to the descendants of Cain. The servants of God in all ages have been called the sons of God (Job 1:6; Ro 8:14; 1Jo 3:2). The character of Seth's descendants proves that they were the sons of God (Ge 5:3-29; 6:9; 7:1). The character of Cain's descendants proves that they were not the sons of God, for Cain himself was a murderer, a fugitive, and vagabond (Ge 4:8-14), and his descendants were polygamists and murderers (Ge 4:17-23).

*From Jamison Faucett Brown Commentary

7-22. builded a city--It has been in cities that the human race has ever made the greatest social progress; and several of Cain's descendants distinguished themselves by their inventive genius in the arts.

If Cain's descendants were gifted in the arts, or that which made their cities progressive, was that by God's blessing? Was that part of Cain's "mark"? Did he just wander around helping establish these new economy type cities?


*From Scofield's Bible References

Ge 6:4
1 sons of God
Some hold that these "sons of God" were the "angels which kept not their first estate" Jude 1:6. It is asserted that the title is in the O.T. exclusively used of angels. But this is an error Isa 43:6. Angels are spoken of in a sexless way. No female angels are mentioned in Scripture, and we are expressly told that marriage is unknown among angels. Mt 22:30.

The uniform Hebrew and Christian interpretation has been that verse Ge 6:2 marks the breaking down of the separation between the godly line of Seth and the godless line of Cain, and so the failure of the testimony to Jehovah committed to the line of Seth Ge 4:26. For apostasy there is no remedy but judgment Isa 1:2-7,24-25; Heb 6:4-8; 10:26-31. Noah, "a preacher of righteousness," is given 120 years, but he won no convert, and the judgment predicted by his great-grandfather fell Jude 1:14-15; Ge 7:11.

So, do we have offspring that were spiritually from an un-godly bloodline, or physically? Are these offspring as celebrated and delighted in as Seth's bloodline or geneologies recorded?

*From International Standard Bible Encylopedia

ENOCH (CITY)
In Ge 4:17 it is narrated that Cain, who had taken up his abode in the land of Nod, East of Eden (verse 16), built there a city, and called it after the name of his firstborn son Enoch. It is impossible to fix more definitely the locality of this first of cities, recorded, as Delitzsch says (Genesis, in the place cited.), as registering an advance in civilization. The "city" would be a very simple affair, a place of protection for himself, wife and household, perhaps connected with the fear spoken of in 4:14.

I can't help but think that fear is not a godly trait.

How or whom had this fear taken root?

We know that satan removes the good "seeds"...

Mt*13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

We know he sowes tares;

Mt*13:38
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

We know he wishes to devour men, literally, and can do so by instilling fear;

1Pe*5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

It's also interesting to note that city dwellers are first introduced by Cain.

Adam and his descendants were by trade, farmers, or men that lived off of the land, not in a commerce type setting.

We have the city mouse vs the country mouse.

We do have lines of distinction between the two families. I think that we can all agree upon.

[Sissy]

Another reason the Serpent Seed Doctrine teaches that Satan had sex with Eve.



Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

• beguiled
  STRONG’s Hebrew definition:
  H5377
  A primitive root; to lead astray, that is, (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce: - beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.

This is the only place that this Hebrew word (H5377) is translated “beguiled”. All other places are translated “deceive” or “deceived”.

The logic that the Serpent Seed doctrine used is that “beguiled” must have the meaning of “seduce” rather than “delude”; otherwise it would have also been translated “deceived”.



Now we look at the New Testament.

2 Corinthians 11
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

• beguiled
  STRONG’s Greek definition:
  G1818
  From G1537 and G538; to seduce wholly: - beguile, deceive.

Also, this is the only place that this Greek word (G1818) is translated “beguiled”. All other places are translated “deceive” or “deceived”.


The Serpent Seed Doctrine has noticed that both these places that speak of Eve and the serpent are translated differently than just “deceived”. Therefore, the logic is that something other than just being “deceived” happened between them.

When we read the above Corinthians verses, notice the parts I bolded.
It appears that it could be saying, “Don’t commit adultery as Eve did.”