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  #16  
Old 12-04-2006, 11:19 AM
JADE JADE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_A_Mom
Christmas time is when alot of lukewarm Christians (that don't otherwise really go to church, study God's Word, or celebrate with other believers) go to hear the Christmas story at a place of worship.

I always hope and pray that some seeds of truth were planted, that something warmed their heart to God's love for them individually and that they will see past the lights and the glitter to the humble beginnings of our Savior.
Exactly, and as sad as it is, sometimes that is the only time many even admit to being Christians.

We have a big church and it had a tradition of having "the Living Christmas Tree" program during Dec. When the Church moved to another location and build all brand new buildings it found that it was not set up well to do that program. So last year they created a new outreach program called "the Night of Lights". It is a hugh production and it is held outdoors. They also have lots of entertainers, snow slide, etc mostly for the young kids. They even have a Santa that gives out gifts to the young of the needy. Only they don't even call him Santa, they call him Uncle Keats toy store. So they don't treat Santa as anything more than a man in a red suit that gives toys to kids.

This is also how we as members can invite others over to this program while they are in the "Christmas" spirit and hopefully they can see that there is more to Christmas/Christians than shopping.

In my own personal situation, my kids are almost grown and they totally know the real story and have for years. My wife also understands that much of the Christmas season is really just a commercial excuse to sell and buy things.(although that doesn't break her heart any, LOL) So while our family is growing older and wiser in the true meanings of Christianity and such, none of us really want to ruin the rather odd way many Christians come to know Christ. I know that had it not been for Christmas, I probably never would have found out anything about Christ or Christianity when I was young.

So while I have no problem discussing all the true meanings and beginnings of the Christmas season here or with fellow mature Christians, I let it slide when in some unknown territory or with young children. They will learn soon enough that Jesus wasn't really born on exactly Dec. 25. I'm sure if the secular teachers had their way, they would dump that little bit of info on the kids in hopes of showing them how they have been fed with lies by fellow Christians and that the only real facts come from atheist scientists.
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  #17  
Old 12-04-2006, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Being Conformed
Sissy, get the impression you don't celebrate Christmas :elff

That's cool!

What's his name (JADE pretty much summed up how I feel give or take.

Christ died for all (even the athiests). Sissy, I think you were the one who said it was a heart matter and I agree. I like the posts made by DB and J???321??? at that 'other' place. I see it as a great time to witness - so many ppl show up for church on Christmas and Easter and actually 'hear' the gospel.
No they don't, what they hear is the lie of christmas,
and as scripture says
  • "No lie is of God"
so then who is it from ???????

X-Mas is just one example of
Eating the Flesh of Swine
http://www.gokarters.com/testvbforum...ead.php?t=1585

and those that do so will surely die
make no mistake about it
  • 17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens
    #1: behind one tree in the midst,
    #2: eating swine's flesh,
    #3: and the abomination,
    #4: and the mouse,
    shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Quote:
~{Matt.13:41}~
41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
God will have a purified peoples,
not ones given over to iniquity and idolatry
he will have a church that is cleansed of "Iniquity"
  • "a deviation of rectutude"
he will have a holy nation,
not one given over to "Pleasures"
as sayth Isaiah
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  #18  
Old 12-04-2006, 08:22 PM
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Hey now Buzz,

We never know when a seed is planted. We never know when the Holy Spirit is at work!

The most hard, bitter person is sometimes open on this holiday to hear something that might flower and bloom at a later time.

I can't give up on hope.

I can't give up that every single time people gather together God might use someone to open their eyes, their ears and their hearts to His grace.

It's about hope.

It's about loving people rather than counting them all for lost.
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  #19  
Old 12-04-2006, 08:41 PM
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Whose fault is it that the lies of Christmas continue? ------- ours.

Whose fault is it that some only hear of Christ at this time? ------ ours.


How many get hot & bothered when lies are mixed with truth?????



THE FIRST NOEL
(first verse)
The First Noel, the Angels did say
Was to certain poor shepherds in fields as they lay
In fields where they lay keeping their sheep
On a cold winter's night that was so deep.
Noel, Noel, Noel, Noel
Born is the King of Israel!

LIE!


(third verse)
And by the light of that same star
Three Wise men came from country far
To seek for a King was their intent
And to follow the star wherever it went.
Noel, Noel, Noel, Noel
Born is the King of Israel!

LIE!


How many times have you received a Christmas card with a cute little picture of a lion beside a lamb with the inscription “And the lion shall lay down with lamb” as if it were scripture?


Here’s what SCRIPTURE really says:


Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

How come you don’t see any Christmas cards with a wolf & lamb like scripture really says?
Just more subtle distortion of what scripture really says.
Some are very subtle.
  • Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said , Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

After reading this thread you will start to notice MANY lies mixed with truth spread at Christmas time.
But nobody seems to be hot & bothered about it.
Why?
Why can’t we proclaim the truth at Christmas WITHOUT continuing the lies?
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  #20  
Old 12-04-2006, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_A_Mom
It's about hope.

It's about loving people rather than counting them all for lost.
This is true.
However, believing in Satan's lies is exactly why we are lost to begin with.

The only true hope to offer is Christ. There is no lie in Christ.
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  #21  
Old 12-05-2006, 06:17 AM
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During this season, I think we have a responsibility to point those towards Christ.

No "spirits" to perk us up, or fancy foods to please our palates, or warm fuzzy gifts to make us smile...it's about being humbly thankful that Christ came down on earth to live amoung us as a man, and gave us the greatest gift of all.
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  #22  
Old 12-09-2006, 02:05 AM
4 ever learning 4 ever learning is offline
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Im new here so dont rip my head off here but Im going to have to agree with Buzzard and Sissy on this one...

and the "I think we have a responsability to point those towards Christ durring this season" .....arent we supposed to do this everyday,... season or no season?

Im not a person that believes in the "gray area"....I believe right is right and wrong is wrong....and lies are LIES...! even if they are to spread the word of GOD.....Jesus didnt go around telling lies to spread the word and neither should we.

I have a 3 year old son and this year like every year before I am not telling him about santa and Im not even putting up a tree or decorating the house this year. Im also not going to tell him theres a tooth fairy or an easter bunny. I will tell him that daddy will give him money for his teeth and easter we will spend the day together as a family like every other day. Maybe hunt easter eggs as a game for kids...but thats it.

I do not however dispise or dislike anyone who does these things, but I myself cannot participate in such things because of conviction.
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  #23  
Old 12-09-2006, 02:32 AM
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Hi 4everlearning ! :happywave

WELCOME!

Feel free to join in (we will try not to leave you headless!!!!)


Quote:
Jesus didnt go around telling lies to spread the word and neither should we
True.
But I honestly think that most folks who celebrate Christmas do so out of habit and just don't know about the lies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 ever learning
I do not however dispise or dislike anyone who does these things, but I myself cannot participate in such things because of conviction.
I can relate to that.

And you are right, there should not be a "season" that specializes in proclaiming Christ. It should be the same all year round.
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  #24  
Old 12-09-2006, 12:09 PM
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Welcome 4eL, and I'm sure you have seen a snapshot of how each of us think about this situation. Also, I'm sure you have seen how many of us are actually growing out of a weaker understanding into a more mature and knowledgeble understanding of Christ and what is behind Christianity. This is all good and part of growing up and hopefully wiser.

My only real concern here is that children and weak Christians "CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH" (as said in Jack Nicholsons voice). Thats not all that shocking either. I still have more to learn as does everyone else. But my fear is that even though there are some trappings of pagan history around some of the Christimas spirit and celebration, all is of God and so all is Good. Thats not to say that I am for "stripping for Christ" or other such weird ways to "show" ones love for Jesus. LOL

Jesus spent much of his time trying to change the hearts and ways of the pagans, jews and others. We are still trying to follow his lead. I just think that to go into a stuffy hollier than thou mode to sterilize the reason or history of a very nice and uplifting holiday and celebration is unnecessary. Let there be more info to help folks understand more of the real Christ, but don't cut off ones nose to spite their face. And let others grow into knowledge like we have, slowly and with purpose.

As far as the toothfairy and the like, I really don't care how you handle that. :rofl

We are never going to take away Christmas, but if we persist in acting as if it is a bad thing, we will help the atheist, non-believers, Muslims, etc. accomplish their goals of minimizing Christians and silencing anything they try to put out. It will then become the second Halloween of the year and will be used as ONLY a time to get drunk, dress up and act a fool. Right now it is a beautiful season of good cheer(not truly holy for various reasons but GOOD)

Jesus is the reason for ALL seasons. :nond
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  #25  
Old 12-09-2006, 01:22 PM
4 ever learning 4 ever learning is offline
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thanks for the welcome guys...

I understand that almost all of Christianity will be celebrating Christmas for years and years, and I also know that many people cant except alot of what I believe because of tradition. I have friends that I’m sure think I’m crazy (although they do not let me know this) haha...but I also have friends that are gaining interest in the why and the how of what I’ve done or do. I think the easy part for me is I’m a man, and I’ve never really cared for all the decorations in the first place...hahaha so its not as hard for me.
But if you really look at it, Christmas is a great big sale. People buy and buy and buy and ask for or expect, and all the while saying Jesus is the reason for the season. (not everyone...just most) There are many who work soup kitchens for the homeless and give gifts to the needy and so on and that’s awesome. But when I look around I see depictions of Christ in alot of places (that still allow it) but mostly I see Santa and lights and snowmen and Christmas trees. It makes ME feel like I’m in Vegas and I’m waiting on a bunch of Santa’s to start singing Elvis songs. (nothing against Elvis) haha
To me I don’t think it will be hard to remove Christ out of Christmas because he's not really in it to begin with. They have all the other fun things to do and have and don’t really need Christ (in their minds)...as long as they have their trees, gifts, decorations, parades, Santa’s, songs, and lights on their houses.

I would love to continue the Christmas celebration because it's fun...but the more I learn, the more I want to run away....hahaha

take care, GOD bless

Last edited by 4 ever learning : 12-09-2006 at 01:28 PM.
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  #26  
Old 12-09-2006, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
(nothing against Elvis)
good thing you added that. Elvis is the KING!!!
Thank you, thank you very much. :laug


:jukid



Christ is our KING!



JADE wrote:
Quote:
It will then become the second Halloween of the year and will be used as ONLY a time to get drunk, dress up and act a fool.
Already got plenty of that. Not much would change.





To all,

It's not as if it were possible to take Christ out of our hearts at Yuletide. For He is in our hearts at all times.

But we are also told not to preach another gospel.
Our gospel does not preach anything about having a season to celebrate the birth of Christ.
So who are we helping by doing this? God or Satan?

Is it really OK to compromise for the sake of peace. If the truth about Christmas and the truth about our Lord and Savior need to be compromised in order to have no hurt feelings, then what's the use?
Jesus came to divide believers and unbelievers. We are to be in the world, but not of the world.
But we would rather unite them so we can have a happy holiday? What's up with that?

And yes, Halloween is slowly trying to become a "Christian" thing. I guess we could hang a big "ol pentagram in our living room now so we can compromise with witches, while we blindly claim "Oh, it's a Christian thing to us now. Those 5 points are really the 5 points of Calvinism".

You gotta remember the temple. It was considered one of the most holy things there was on earth.
But when too much emphasis was put on it, God destroyed it. It became a snare.
Are we doing the same thing - puttin too much emphasis on a certain season and creating a snare for many?


Of all the things that the bible tell us God disaproves of, idolatry is mentioned more than a hundred times more over anything else.
Think He was trying to make a point?
Why is the truth so hard to swallow?
If Christ is not really the origin of Christmas, why should it be so hard to just say that?
It doesn't delete the holiday, it just deletes the false Christian origin of it.
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  #27  
Old 12-09-2006, 09:06 PM
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Default Biblical proof of celebrating Christ's birth

Okay, the birth of Christ was Celebrated and was ordained by God Himself there was a party going on here folks a clean and Holy party but a party none-the-less. :thup2

Amplified Bible (AMP)


View commentary related to this passage



Luke 2
1IN THOSE days it occurred that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that the whole [a]Roman empire should be registered.
2This was the first enrollment, and it was made when Quirinius was governor of Syria.

3And all the people were going to be registered, each to his own city or town.

4And Joseph also went up from Galilee from the town of Nazareth to Judea, to the town of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David,

5To be enrolled with Mary, his espoused ([b]married) wife, who was about to become a mother.(A)

6And while they were there, the time came for her delivery,

7And she gave birth to her Son, her Firstborn; and she wrapped Him in swaddling clothes and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room or place for them in the inn.

8And in that vicinity there were shepherds living [out under the open sky] in the field, watching [in shifts] over their flock by night.

9And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by them, and the glory of the Lord flashed and shone all about them, and they were terribly frightened.

10But the angel said to them, Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people.

11For to you is born this day in the town of David a Savior, Who is Christ (the Messiah) the Lord!(B)

12And this will be a sign for you [by which you will recognize Him]: you will find [[c]after searching] a Baby wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in a manger. [I Sam. 2:34; II Kings 19:29; Isa. 7:14.]

13Then suddenly there appeared with the angel an army of the troops of heaven ([d]a heavenly knighthood), praising God and saying,

14Glory to God in the highest [heaven], and on earth peace among men with whom He is well pleased [[e]men of goodwill, of His favor].

15When the angels went away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us go over to Bethlehem and see this thing ([f]saying) that has come to pass, which the Lord has made known to us.

16So they went with haste and [[g]by searching] found Mary and Joseph, and the Baby lying in a manger.

17And when they saw it, they made known what had been told them concerning this Child,

18And all who heard it were astounded and marveled at what the shepherds told them.

19But Mary was keeping [h]within herself all these things ([i]sayings), weighing and pondering them in her heart.

20And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things they had heard and seen, just as it had been told them
.


As far as the Magi well, I would have to do more study - I've been taught and checked out a few sites tonite - that Jesus was approximately 2 y/o by the time they arrived. No, it does not say there were 3 wisemen; but 3 gifts.

Since, I know we are having a healthy discussion here nobody feels attacked (And please bare with this child - I habba cold and I've been tired/dizzy for the past few days - sigh can't even enjoy my days off - lol)

Sissy, what do consider the gospel? (just humor me here please)
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  #28  
Old 12-09-2006, 09:23 PM
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x-mass was brought into the church by Rome

Paul says speciffically to the Roman church to flee from idolatry
and covetousness is idolatry



Peter says
  • there shall be false teachers among you,
and from these false teachers will come the Damnable Heresies
  • who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,
    even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
    2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways;
    by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
    3 And through covetousness[idolatry] shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you:
and there be a whole bunch of Idolatry going on at X-mas time,
and a whole lot of money being made by it

I would take Pauls advise and flee from x-mas as fast as your little feet can carry you
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  #29  
Old 12-09-2006, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Being Conformed
Sissy, what do consider the gospel? (just humor me here please)
Here’s what the apostles were taught to teach us:


Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Now, find me a scripture where they ever taught to observe His birth. Ain’t there. Why?


Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzard
and there be a whole bunch of Idolatry going on at X-mas time,
and a whole lot of money being made by it
Good point Buzz.
Just another way the Pharisees of the world can continue their den of thieves.




Here’s another guy who thought it might be a good idea to “create” another holy day that God did not ordain. Jeroboam, king of the northern kindom Israel.


1Kings 12
32 And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made.
33 So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart ; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.

You can follow up with this story to see if God was pleased.



Deu 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared byfollowing them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

That’s what has happened. Pagans had their way of worshipping their gods. And we are trying to worship our God in a likewise manner.
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  #30  
Old 12-09-2006, 11:48 PM
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forgot to add

Quote:
Since, I know we are having a healthy discussion here nobody feels attacked
:thup2 Exactly! I hope no one views any of this as an attack.
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