Serpent Seed

[Sissy]

My intent for this thread is not to declare whether this doctrine is true or not, but only to illuminate what the doctrine is so folks can be prepared when (or if) they encounter it.


Just for the record, my belief is that Eve having an offspring with Satan is a possibility.
I am reluctant to state it as PROOF, but I do not just pass it off as impossible.

If Satan’s offspring did not come from Eve, then who did his offspring come from? No matter how uncomfortable the thought of Eve having sex with Satan may be, you still have to admit that Satan does have a “seed”.

• Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Thus, we have the beginning basis of the Serpent Seed Doctrine.

But from here it gets hairy!!!
This is where the doctrine begins to branch out into many different stories.


Now, here is one of the problems that needs to be worked out.
If Satan’s offspring was indeed Cain, then how did this bloodline survive the flood?

This is where one of the “splits” in the view of the doctrine occurs.
One view says that the bloodline survived the flood and continues even to this day.
Another says that there will be a new offspring of Satan in the end times.

Even within the view that the bloodline survived the flood, there is a “split”.
One view says the flood was global and that the bloodline was indeed on the ark.
The other says the flood was not global, so part of the bloodline was not affected by the flood.

To keep from getting totally confused, it might be best to discuss one view at time.
Since the majority of Christians believe the flood was global, it might be best to first discuss just how the Serpent Seed Doctrine explains how the bloodline survived the flood.
(And yes, there are even different views on this view too!!!) One view that makes me laugh is that the bloodline was somewhat “superhuman” (for lack of a better word) and that they weren’t actually INSIDE the ark, but they were so strong that they held on to the ark for the duration of the flood!!!! Some of the views get pretty wild!
But can we just write off the whole doctrine just because some of the views get a little wild????




I’ll try to work on a post to show some scriptures that the Serpent Seed Doctrine uses to support their view that the bloodline was inside the ark. Can’t say when that will be, so if anyone else wants to jump in ….. COME ON!

We also need to discuss some of the “problems” with the doctrine.
Such as:
Doesn’t this PROVE that Satan (or any angel) is incapable of having a sexual union with a human woman?

• Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

[Sissy]

Well, this subject didn't generate much interest.

I'll try to pick another one and see if does better.

[Being Conformed]

Originally Posted by Sissy

Well, this subject didn't generate much interest.

I'll try to pick another one and see if does better.

Sorry, I've been occupied in other areas (my job being one of them). Plus trying not to spend so much time on forums.

I mostly planned on just reading it and I skimmed it a bit today, but didn't really get to read it in depth.

God Bless. :nond

[Sissy]

That's OK. I see you are busy with life!

Plus, this is a busy time of year for lots of folks.

If time allows for an interest later, we can take it up again.

(((HUGS)))

[marcie]

Sissy

First let me say this topic is very very interesting and where does one begin... well not with prego brain I want to join in but my thoughts are not all there lately... you know I have asked many of the questions posted.. like... the wife cain had after he was banished. also isn't there a referance in the Bible OT regarding angels and women having intercourse and producing giants I can't seem to find it. also that could explain some unknown phenominom(sp) with demons having intercourse with women. Also this one verse in Genesis has always intreged me.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Then we go to Genesis 2:7

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

so that's Adam but the other men and women?


Just a question.Just as thought

well I best be going I love you and still am learning vry much from your thread.

God Bless
Marcie

[Sissy]

Originally Posted by marcie

Also this one verse in Genesis has always intreged me.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Then we go to Genesis 2:7

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

so that's Adam but the other men and women?


Just a question.Just as thought

Marcie,

That would go with the doctrine of the "8th Day Adam".
We could start a thread on it too.
It shows the differences between male & female being created in Genesis 1 and Adam being created in Genesis 2.
There are some differences between the two chapters.
Actually, the differences are there whether anyone believes Adam was created on the 8th day or on the 6th day along with the others.



Your question about angels mating with women is in Genesis 6.
The Hebrew word translated "giants" is where we get the word "Nephilim".

• Genesis 6
  1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
  2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
  3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.
  4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The main objection most have is that "sons of God" refer to the righteous line of Seth (Adam & Eves son that replaced Abel after Cain killed him). And that "daughters of men" refers to the unrighteous line of Cain.

One problem with this is that "sons of God" is never refered to man in the OT, but always to angels.
Another problem is that there is no reason whatsoever that the offspring of a righteous man & an unrighteous woman would be born "different".
And besides all of that, we cannot assume that ALL the decsendants of Seth were righteous. Afterall, the flood drowned some of his descendants also.

This might be a good place to continue the discussion.
CAN angels breed with humans?
(And remember, when we say "angels", we are talking about both "good" angels and "bad" angels.

[Sissy]

Can angels mate with women?


My first reaction is YES.
Based on the fact that Satan is an angel, and that Genesis 3 tells us that Satan does have a “seed”.

• Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Jesus has a discussion with folks about a woman who was married 7 times. Each time her husband died, she married another. The folks wanted to know who’s wife she would be after the resurrection.
Jesus gives this answer:

• From Matthew:
  Matthew 22
  29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.
  30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
  
  
• From Mark:
  Mark 12
  24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the Scriptures, neither the power of God?
  25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Some point to this answer that Jesus gives and say, “See, angels can’t marry.”

But does it really say that?
It DOES say that there will be no marriages between those that are resurrected.
Probably because we that are resurrected will be married to Christ, so be married to another would be adultery.

Now, this brings up an interesting question.
It says that we will be as the angels.
Does this mean that the angels in heaven are also married to Christ?

[Invisible_2_no1]

Originally Posted by Sissy

Can angels mate with women?


My first reaction is YES.
Based on the fact that Satan is an angel, and that Genesis 3 tells us that Satan does have a “seed”.

Or, is it only the angels that choose to?

Maybe there's a choice?

[Sissy]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Mom

Or, is it only the angels that choose to?

Maybe there's a choice?

I certainly believe that a choice was involved.
But they could have had no choice at all if they were not capable of doing so to begin with.
We are all capable of sin (even angels), but actually commiting the sin is a choice.


One thing to notice is that every instance of an angelic being is refered to as male. None were female.
Which brings us to another interesting verse in the NT.

• 1Corinthians 11
  8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
  9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
  10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

"because of the angels"

Think about that one for awhile!!!!!

[Sissy]

Now I’m gonna talk about one of the split views of this doctrine.

As I stated earlier, some think that all of the line of Cain was destroyed in the flood and that angels will once again impregnate women in the end times.

The other view is that at least one of Cain’s descendants ended up on the ark.
So I’m gonna start with this view first.


Several possibilities as to how a descendant of Cain ended up on the ark.
Some say it was the wife of Noah.
And again, there’s a split.
Some say that Noah had more than one wife. But that is pure speculation and has no backing by scripture, so I’m gonna skip that one.

So, could it have been the wife of Noah?
I don’t think so. As far as we know from scripture, she was his only wife and she bore all 3 of Noah’s sons.
That would make it impossible for Christ to descend through a pure bloodline.
So, I think we can skip that one too.

The other possibility is that it was a wife of one of Noah’s sons.
The one folks like to pin this on the most is the wife of Ham.
Again, this is speculation because we have no scripture to back up that any of the son’s wives were of the line of Cain.
So, I think we can skip that one too.

Another view is that when Noah brought a male & female of every kind into the ark, it is suggested that a male & female of each of the races (that were created before Adam) was brought onto the ark.
This is all based on the view that Genesis chapter 1 tells the story of “mankind” being created, and Genesis chapter 2 tells the story of Adam (a completely separate race) being created.
(I’ll have to start another thread about that, because it would take up too much time here for this discussion).
This is based on the theory that Cain's wife was one of those other races created before Adam.


But wait.
Doesn’t scripture state that all of mankind would be destroyed, except for Noah?

Sort of. But let’s look at it a little closer.

• Genesis 6
  5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
  6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
  7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
  8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

That certainly seems to say that all but Noah will be destroyed.

But look at the last part of verse 7. It says He will destroy the animals too.
If that’s true, then there would have been none on the ark. And since we know the rest of the story, that just can’t be the case.

The proponents of the Serpent Seed Doctrine that claim that Cain’s line ended up on the ark use this scripture:

• Genesis 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

There is a verse in the NT that does cause a problem.

• 1Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

If Noah and his family were the eight, then that would mean that the other races created before Adam were not “souls”.



BTW, if anyone can add scripture to the views I skipped, feel free.
I tend to lean toward the view that angels will once again impregnate women in the end times, but I’ll talk about that one later.
I still keep an open mind about all of this.

[marcie]

Sissy

I have to re-read all of this it is very intense.

Also have you heard of the "Other Wife" Adam had Lillith, and maybe that is the seed that the Bible could be refering to. It is Hebrew Folklore almost nomadic in nature and the basis for Modern day wiccans beliefs and feminists beliefs.

would be interresting to see how this folklore coinsides with these theroys.

My first reaction is YES.
Based on the fact that Satan is an angel, and that Genesis 3 tells us that Satan does have a “seed”.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

In folklore she is considered satans wife now. Interesting and in some deliverance circles she represents the demon that takes babys away (sids etc) .

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/l/lilith.html

There is one link to a source.

But this topic is very intense.

BTW

A good friend of mine was the one who mentioned that 8 th day adam theroy and many other theroys she was at the time SDA and they had very odd interpretations. From certain people only being in the Tribes to the 144,000 to the 2 linages.etc. I will call her up and see what she remembers as she is no longer SDA.

Well God Bless
marcie

[Invisible_2_no1]

I would have say Lillith should have been in the Bible then. She would have shown up in the geneologies somewhere if she bore children.

Even Cain's geneology is in there...

I have heard of the Lillith story line and to me it's just a pagan thing-no Scripture to back it.

But if someone can add to this please include it Marcie. We should know what's out there regarding this.

[Sissy]

Hey Marcie,

Yes, it would be interesting to hear what your friend has to say about the 8th day Adam.


As far as the Lillith story, it's an assumption. No backing by scripture.
The only way false theories can hold together is by accepting that the assumption is fact.
In any theory, if you take away the first assumption, the rest of the theory falls apart no matter how "logical" is seems.
It has no solid foundation.

Makes a good story though. Just like the Divinchi Code, and Evolution!!!!!

[Dan Bittleston]

Sissy, referring to some of your comments in post #25.

In Gen 6:18 But with you will I establish my covenant; and you shall come into the ark, you, and your sons, and your wife, and your sons' wives with you. God told Noah that He would spare him, his wife, his sons and his son's wives. Nowhere can I find that God told Noah that He would save him only, it always included his wife, his sons and their wives also.

When we look at "man" in Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them., we find that the Hebrew word Aw-dawm, Strong's #120, was used. It refers back to Strong's #119 adam aw-dam to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy:--be (dyed, made) red (ruddy). Under this premise, it can be reasonably determined that Adam's original color was "red" or "ruddy".

For there to be the races of people on earth today that there is, there had to be a mixture of them on the ark also. To find about this we have to go to the time when Cain received the "mark" after he had slain his brother Abel. Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slays Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. I, along with others, believe that this "mark" was a "skin color change", although there is no scripture to back it up. I believe that at least one of Noah's son's wives had to be of a different color of skin.

Some interesting "food for thought" here is that in Gen 1:27 it states that the "female" was also created. In Gen 2:20 we find that Adam did not find a "help-mate" for himself; so in Gen 2:21,22 we find that God took a rib from Adam's side and from it "made" woman. This "female" was not "created" but was "made" or "formed" from a part of man. I often wonder if the "first female" in Gen 1:27 was in fact what later is referred to as "the serpent", Gen 3:1. and was acting out of jealousy for not having been selected as Adam's help-mate in Gen 2:20. Another question that arises is, how could Adam have recognized his "female counterpart"? Did Adam even know what he looked like so he could identify his counterpart that way?

These are some of the questions that will remain unanswered, during this lifetime.

We can believe what we want to, but there is no way to prove what we believe, that I am aware of.

Yours in Christ
YBIC
Dan Bittleston

[Sissy]

Originally Posted by Dan Bittleston

Sissy, referring to some of your comments in post #25.

In Gen 6:18 But with you will I establish my covenant; and you shall come into the ark, you, and your sons, and your wife, and your sons' wives with you. God told Noah that He would spare him, his wife, his sons and his son's wives. Nowhere can I find that God told Noah that He would save him only, it always included his wife, his sons and their wives also.

right. That's what I meant. I should have stated Noah & family.

For there to be the races of people on earth today that there is, there had to be a mixture of them on the ark also.

That's a good point to consider.

To find about this we have to go to the time when Cain received the "mark" after he had slain his brother Abel. Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slays Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. I, along with others, believe that this "mark" was a "skin color change", although there is no scripture to back it up. I believe that at least one of Noah's son's wives had to be of a different color of skin.

Could be.
I have a different view of the "mark". I tend to think it was some form of "knowledge".
It had to be something that would make the other folks NOT want to kill him.
With him, cities are built.
This ties in with some things in the book of Enoch about the fallen angels teaching men "knowledge" of how to form things like steel for weapons and tools, cosmetics, and other stuff.
I think that since Cain chose to go the way of his father that he was given that same knowledge.
But that's certainly debatable. Just my opinion.

Some interesting "food for thought" here is that in Gen 1:27 it states that the "female" was also created. In Gen 2:20 we find that Adam did not find a "help-mate" for himself; so in Gen 2:21,22 we find that God took a rib from Adam's side and from it "made" woman. This "female" was not "created" but was "made" or "formed" from a part of man.

Yes. This is just one of differences between Genesis chapter 1 and chapter 2.
Hopefully we will get a thread going to discuss the other differences.

I often wonder if the "first female" in Gen 1:27 was in fact what later is referred to as "the serpent", Gen 3:1. and was acting out of jealousy for not having been selected as Adam's help-mate in Gen 2:20.

I would like to hear more of your thoughts about this. I have not heard this before.