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  #31  
Old 12-10-2006, 12:44 AM
JADE JADE is offline
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Does anyone here celebrate the birth of our kids or others?

Did Jesus command us to?

The Bible does not say we can not celebrate his birthday or anyone else's birthday that I can see. Although the JWs hold true to not celebrating anything.

I just don't think it was ever intended for us to be afraid to like something or celebrate it. As long as we are not worshiping it or idols, etc.

And yes, I do appreciate that we can disagree but not disrespect. :thup2
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  #32  
Old 12-10-2006, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Does anyone here celebrate the birth of our kids or others?
Yep.
But I don't call it a holy day or attach a religious significance that does not belong there.

I have a good 'ol time on 4th of July too.

My point is that you can have a good 'ol time at Yuletide with your family WITHOUT trying to turn it into a false holy day.

That's my whole point.
It's not about deleting holidays. It's about Christians attaching a religious significance that does not belong there.
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  #33  
Old 12-10-2006, 02:28 AM
4 ever learning 4 ever learning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sissy
Yep.
But I don't call it a holy day or attach a religious significance that does not belong there.

I have a good 'ol time on 4th of July too.

My point is that you can have a good 'ol time at Yuletide with your family WITHOUT trying to turn it into a false holy day.

That's my whole point.
It's not about deleting holidays. It's about Christians attaching a religious significance that does not belong there.

ditto...






:bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bday3 ....I had to...hahaha

Last edited by 4 ever learning : 12-10-2006 at 02:42 AM.
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  #34  
Old 12-10-2006, 02:32 AM
4 ever learning 4 ever learning is offline
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this may need its own thread, but what should we celebrate or I should ask, what does GOD want us to celebrate ? :rulz
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  #35  
Old 12-10-2006, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 ever learning
this may need its own thread, but what should we celebrate or I should ask, what does GOD want us to celebrate ? :rulz
Do you mean what should Christians celebrate as a RELIGIOUS time?
Are you talking about the religious feast that God DID ordain (such as Passover)?
Or are you asking if we should be celebrating non-religious things such as birthdays and 4th of July?

It might be best to start it's own thread.

It's a good question.
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  #36  
Old 12-10-2006, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 ever learning
:bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bday3 ....I had to...hahaha
ROFL!

Nice to have another member with a sense of humor. I think you and JADE will be good friends. He keeps us cracked-up and we love him for it!!!!!
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  #37  
Old 12-10-2006, 02:57 AM
4 ever learning 4 ever learning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sissy
Do you mean what should Christians celebrate as a RELIGIOUS time?
Are you talking about the religious feast that God DID ordain (such as Passover)?
Or are you asking if we should be celebrating non-religious things such as birthdays and 4th of July?

It might be best to start it's own thread.

It's a good question.

both...
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  #38  
Old 12-10-2006, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzard
X-Mas is just one example of
Hello Buzzard, I don't believe we have met unless I know you under another name elsewhere.

Okay, how do you think Christ feels about your referring to Him as "X"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sissy
It's not about deleting holidays. It's about Christians attaching a religious significance that does not belong there.
I bring you Romans 14-Freedom in Christ Now, if one considers a day Holy then so be it ... if one considers it a sin then so be it...if it is a stumbling block - STOP RIGHT THERE - okay this is where faith in God and His Sovereignity comes in we all cause others to stumble in many things not just Christmas. Here are some posts from another site which brings up the issue of how convoluted history can be I'm also posting a link here regarding the history of Christmas - I found several different 'theories/histories' on the web.
Quote from another believer:
Quote:
I myself have done research on the actual birth time of Christ, and from what I've read I'd say that all indications point to somewhere between September and October. Christmas, in the traditional Protestant belief means a memorial day for the celebration of Christ's birth. It doesn't indicate that He was actually born on this day.

While it is generally believed that pagans celebrated several end of the year festivals on December 25, it is celebrated by Christians around the world as a a celebration of Christ's birth. It is believed that Christians tried to find a way to combat the pagan festivals and bring the gospel of Christ to the pagans. Hence, Christmas Day.

I'm sure everyone agrees that gift-giving originated from the gifts given to the Messiah by the Magi.

For a couple years I didn't put up a Christmas tree because I wasn't entirely sure how I felt about all the info I had been reading. It took me awhile to sort thru it all and to digest it. I personally have come to the conclusion that a celebration to commemerate the birth of Christ can be done anytime of the day, week, month, or year. It doesn't have to be JUST on December 25. I do believe that Christians meant well, and truly intended to do away with the pagan festivals celebrated on 12/25. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. Pagans still celebrate all their festivals and then some, yet today.

The conclusion of my study and my time of "abstinence" of the tree and Christmas celebration certainly provided much food for thought. I had to do a lot of intense soul searching to reach the conclusion I did.

Today, I observe the birth of Christ on December 25 and don't feel guilty for doing so. For me, Christmas has always been about the giving. I was raised in a Christian home and the focus of Christmas was never on Santa and how many presents we'll get, but instead how to help others and sharing the gift of salvation with them.

Whether Christ was born in April, May, Sept., or Dec isn't an issue. The most important thing is that He WAS born of a virgin, He DID give His life for us, He WAS resurrected, and IS on the right hand of God on this very day.

I don't criticize others for not celebrating Christmas, in fact, we have friends who celebrate Hanukkah instead, and we have celebrated and observed this holiday with them in the past. I believe it is everyone's choice to celebrate or not. Follow your convictions, not the beliefs of others.

I guess I should point out one more thing. In my research of Christmas and other "holidays", I also found some interesting information about the Gregorian calendar that so many of us follow today.

No one knows for sure when the first calendar was invented, but historians have found notched bones in Europe and Africa that indicate they were used to record moon phases. Supposedly these bones date back several thousands of years.

A brief history on the days of the week and months of the year. Our weekdays originally were named after the names of planetary bodies. The Babylonians were first known to do this while the Egyptians were believed to have developed the solar calendar. Just to give you an idea of what the days of the week mean, I'll tell you that Sunday of course is name for the Sun, Monday is named for the Moon, and Tuesday is actually taken from "Mar's day" which is from the Roman warrior god, Mars. Wednesday is adapted from "Mercury's day" which is from the Roman god of peace and prosperity. The remaining days of the week are named for gods and goddesses. Our months are named for gods, goddesses, and festivals as well.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is this. We follow this calendar every day, week, month, and year of our lives. Yes, it was derived from evil (for all intents and purposes), but we still follow and use this calendar. So much of our traditions today are based on pagan rituals and "unChristian" practices. Unfortunatly, we would have to remove ourselves from this world in order to be unaffected by this. This won't happen of course until we die or when Christ returns.

Like I said above, following certain traditions and holidays all comes down to conviction. I suggest you pray about it and ask the Lord to guide you on what you should do.
continued....
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  #39  
Old 12-10-2006, 12:09 PM
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Default Talk about starting conspiracy theories

Quote from a believer at another site:
Quote:
Revelation 12:1-2
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Quote:
In 3 B.C the constellation Virgo clothed with the sun as it entered the mid-body in its ecliptic course had the moon under her feet on one day only - Wednesday, September 11th. This configuration was visible in the Palestine area between 6:18 P.M. and 7:39 P.M. on that day. It was during this time period that Jesus Christ was born.

September 11, 3 B.C. fell on the first day of the month Tishri (the seventh month of the year according to the calendar given Moses following the exodus from Egypt.) Prior to the exodus, Tishri was the first month of the year and "Rosh Hashanah" or New Year's Day is still celebrated in modern Judaism on this day.

"During the whole of New Year's Day [Tishri 1], trumpets and horns were blown in Jerusalem from morning to evening." - Alfred Edersheim - The Temple: Its Ministry and Services.

On Tishri 1 [September 11, 3 B.C.] while trumpets were blowing in Jerusalem to honor God and welcome the new year, in the small nearby town of Bethlehem the promised Christ who would reconcile men to God was being born. The religious and political leaders of the day were occupied with their own affairs and unaware of the significant event that was occurring.

Biblical, chronological, historical and astronomical evidence concerning the birth date of the promised Messiah to Israel, every man's lord and savior, Jesus Christ - points to Wednesday September 11, 3 B.C. between the hours of 6:18 (sunset) and 7:39 (moonset) Palestine time.

Almost every Biblical scholar has known and attested for centuries, that Jesus Christ could not have been born on December 25th. The December festival in Rome known as the Saturnalia, or the Feast of Saturn, celebrating the birth of their sun-god was adopted by the church in Rome as Christ's birth date in the third century. A special mass was instituted and celebrated for Christ. Hence, the name "Christ-mass", abbreviated "Christmas". The pagan celebration and traditions of decorating fir trees, lighting the yule-log, and many other customs associated with Saturnalia were adopted.

The truth of God's Word regarding the events surrounding the birth of Christ in the fall of the year has been lost in the traditions and artistry of pagan and modern celebrations. If we are to truly understand our savior's birth we must study God's Word from its inherent accuracy. We will find that on that September evening the Word of God reports no record of three wise men, drummer boys, or flying angels. We will see the quiet rejoicing of a handful of shepherds, Mary his mother, and Joseph reported in the gospel of Luke. The record of magi from the east following "his star" recorded in Matthew occurred almost a year and a half later and is not the subject of this presentation.
Now these two posters did not provide the source of their info but in essence sums up what I said previously about varying info on the I-net not that there are not other sources available.
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  #40  
Old 12-10-2006, 12:24 PM
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Default The Gospel

http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-b...l?strongs=2098

Is not the Gospel the "good news" that our God has sent the Messiah to be our Savior.

Quote:
Galatians 1:6-10 (CEV)

The Only True Message
6I am shocked that you have so quickly turned from God, who chose you because of his wonderful kindness. [a] You have believed another message, 7when there is really only one true message. But some people are causing you trouble and want to make you turn away from the good news about Christ. 8I pray that God will punish anyone who preaches anything different from our message to you! It doesn't matter if that person is one of us or an angel from heaven. 9I have said it before, and I will say it again. I hope God will punish anyone who preaches anything different from what you have already believed. 10I am not trying to please people. I want to please God. Do you think I am trying to please people? If I were doing that, I would not be a servant of Christ
This of course is the gnostic teaching about Christ - not about which days are Holy ... but claiming to have secret revelations about Christ and trying to put those back under the law.

Galatians 3:1-5 (CEV)
Faith Is the Only Way
Quote:
1You stupid Galatians! I told you exactly how Jesus Christ was nailed to a cross. Has someone now put an evil spell on you? 2I want to know only one thing. How were you given God's Spirit? Was it by obeying the Law of Moses or by hearing about Christ and having faith in him? 3How can you be so stupid? Do you think that by yourself you can complete what God's Spirit started in you? 4Have you gone through all of this for nothing? Is it all really for nothing? 5God gives you his Spirit and works miracles in you. But does he do this because you obey the Law of Moses or because you have heard about Christ and have faith in him?
Wow, putting them back under the law - legalism. What happened to Grace?
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  #41  
Old 12-10-2006, 12:36 PM
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I agree with many comments made in this thread no we shouldn't lie; yet we also must give milk where milk is needed.

As Jade (and I think maybe JAM) had it not been for going to church as a young'n who knows?

I for one believed in Jesus and Santa Claus and creation and evolution (don't even go there - it isn't a blond thing-lol) Hey, the point is we are all unique and at different levels in our walk-we are going to make the ACLU look GREAT and create a bigger stumbling block for seekers, babes in Christ because they will feel confused. While it may lead to soul searching it may also lead others astray. As far as the lie - many things have been said - such as we are to live each day for Jesus. If we explain to ppl the symbolism and that we are using a good thing to destroy a negative thing that is not a lie (not in my heart anyway).

I never even noticed what you shewed me about the song Noel it's not one of my favs anyhoo! I know that once I grew in my knowledge the words of Christmas hymns took on such a deeper meaning and I understood them rather than just singing them. I understood the message being presented.

I'll be quiet now. This was church for me this morning.

God Bless!

:nond
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  #42  
Old 12-11-2006, 04:10 PM
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Okay, what about the arguement of the angels in the fields with the shepherds?

Was that a "celebration"...?

We should define it...if we can.
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  #43  
Old 12-11-2006, 04:59 PM
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Talking harping on the pagan stuff again!

Let me see if I’m getting this logic correctly.


I walk into the home of one of my neighbors. They have a tree decorated for Christmas. I look at the top of the tree. There is not the usual star atop the tree.
Instead, it has a big ‘ol 5 pointed upside down star.

I say, “Hey, why do you have a pagan pentagram on top of your tree?”

They reply, “Oh silly! That’s not a pagan symbol anymore. Since I’m a Christian I can use any ‘ol symbol I want to as long as I invoke the name of CHRIST on it. Now it's all about CHRIST. Ain't it cool!”



Is there any difference in what my neighbor just did?
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  #44  
Old 12-11-2006, 07:31 PM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sissy
Let me see if I’m getting this logic correctly.


I walk into the home of one of my neighbors. They have a tree decorated for Christmas. I look at the top of the tree. There is not the usual star atop the tree.
Instead, it has a big ‘ol 5 pointed upside down star.

I say, “Hey, why do you have a pagan pentagram on top of your tree?”

They reply, “Oh silly! That’s not a pagan symbol anymore. Since I’m a Christian I can use any ‘ol symbol I want to as long as I invoke the name of CHRIST on it. Now it's all about CHRIST. Ain't it cool!”



Is there any difference in what my neighbor just did?
Is this question for me? I'll wait for a response. I have to get going now.
:trol LOL
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  #45  
Old 12-11-2006, 08:04 PM
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LOL!

No, it was not directed to anyone in particular.
It was just the impression I got from some of your links that were provided on how they tried to express that Christmas may have started out pagan, but was now a Christian thing.
Just wondering how far they would go before they draw the line, or if they don't think a line is needed at all!!!

My little story may seem extreme!

But many in the early 4th century church thought Christmas was extreme at the time it started. They didn't want any part of it, but the "appeal" of it all was too tempting for most and it prevailed.

Just wondering if anyone thinks there is any line to be drawn where CHRIST does not want his name attached. And if there is a line, where is it?
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