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#16
11-27-2006, 08:23 AM
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Yes, If i say "red dog" you may see Clifford the Dog in your mind... before i said it to you , i saw it in my mind, and then spoke it in english... If you are praying in tongues about "wanting a red dog", you should be saying it in that language... However, The Spirit is also praying thru you on your behalf about things you need to deal with but don't know to pray about... With me the Spirit prays about "Pride, my marriage, being more faithful in my attendance, my future"... I know this becuase when I worship in tongues it is in mostly Hebrew, and sometimes i can Hear it, and look up a word or two that I heard... Does this make sense?
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-Steadfast :sheildsmi Last edited by Steadfast : 11-27-2006 at 08:27 AM. 
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#17
11-27-2006, 08:36 AM
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Absolutely not.
If I want to speak to God, I speak to Him. We have an understanding. I may not always feel His presence with me, or hear His words back to me immediately, but I certainly make sure that I am communicating with Him with my full understanding as to what in the world I am saying. Have you ever pondered this? Back in OT times, let's say in Abrahams day, a man were to spew words of nonsense in a place of worship, he would be stoned for either demonic possession or locked up because he was coo-coo? Deuteronomy 18:20-22 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. I'm not afraid of what you are saying, Steadfast. For you have proven yourself here as a false prophet. This "tongue" speak is your idol, SF. Jer*23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. The mouth of the Lord wishes for us UNDERSTANDING, not CONFUSION. I see nothing in tongue speak except confusion. I see people that are acting and trying to be something "special" by their ability to say words incoherrantly over and over again. Our Lord, SF, in not the author of confusion. That would be satan, the father of lies. The words "tongue" and how it is applied to Acts has been proven to you over and over again in older threads SF. Which you continued to ignore. To go away, and come back again spouting the same tongue speak is getting old friend. Until you confront your idol, and really LISTEN to the Word of God being spoken to you here, we have nothing more to offer you.
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#18
11-27-2006, 03:13 PM
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Baptism of the Holy Spirit a lie? demonic? and an Idol...???
far from it... But like most religious people of Jesus' day , you call the things of God, that you are not willing to experience, the things of Evil... You speak as an expert of that which you know Nothing... You are like a dolphin smugly trying to convince a mountain climber that snow no longer exists… You are a daughter of Rome and not Jerusalem… How do I know this…Like those of the Roman church you deny the biblical works of the Holy Spirit today… You are in rebellion to simple obedience to Acts 2:38… You desire the easy believism doctrine of men, over the truth which was laid out by the apostils… And, Spiritually you hear only what you wish to hear; justifying your rejection of Biblical Jesus name baptism and receiving His Spirit, by saying in your heart “we have an understanding”… When the truth is that you MUST seek to find not wait to receive… Why do you say “We have an understanding” when scripture says the opposite… Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; Why do you need “an Understanding” when Scripture is clear about how to be born again as is illustrated again, and again, and again all thru Acts chapter 2, 8,10, 12 and 19…? My sister, I love you, and this is why I MUST warn you, that you have become as stiff necked and bound up in dead religion as Denis… When you finally lay down your control issues, fears and doubts in Jesus Christ becoming alive in your life, in this way, you will finally be able to receive the baptism of the Spirit... And, when you do, You will know what it is to be complete in Jesus… for you will know that, like the apostils, you sang forth in the tongues of Angels when Jesus finally came in….not to mention the thousands of other changes that The holy Spirit will do to draw you deeper into Christ Jesus’ love then you ever imagined possible… And, like me, no one will be able to convince you otherwise… but regrettably, on that day, You will also finally understand how much in error you were about this... and you will regret, that for so long, thru your ignorance, you pushed away so many souls from the truth of light... causing them to doubt the truth, simply to justify your own religious desires. Turn from this path, surrender “You Understanding”, Trust the bible, Pray and fast, seek Jesus for the truth in this matter, and seek Jesus with ALL your heart… and He will show you the narrow way that so many walk away from… Jesus died to Give you the gift of living the fully born again experience, as see in scripture… Believe it is for you, and take the blood bought gift! You have said many grievous things about my character, walk, and divine calling… for this a forgive you, because I am nothing… As for false prophet... KNOW the truth about me? I confess that Jesus Christ is LORD of all! Jesus Christ is the one and ONLY Messiah come in flesh! Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith... Jesus is the only doorway to God... and He is the redeemer of humanities sin, thru His own blood, shed on the cross... Now, go read 1 John 4... And stop second guessing God and his messenger regarding these things….
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-Steadfast :sheildsmi Last edited by Steadfast : 11-27-2006 at 03:19 PM.
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#19
11-27-2006, 03:43 PM
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You believe this tongue speak is the sign one needs to prove he/she is "born again"...which is simply not true. You are relying on your "signs" SF, which is dangerous ground to be on. Quote:
Not from Rome or Jerusalem, I am a daughter of the King.  His residence is one of neither city. Quote:
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Pr*3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. Your tongue speak is wisdom? What chapter and what verse? Are you saying you are an apostle then SF? Are you living in the NT church and in the NT days? Or are we to believe that you are in the same century that we are, reading the same Bible we are? See, when "tongues" happened at Pentecost, the Bible was finished yet. The story wasn't done. The languages, the people, were gathered in one place. The Holy Spirit filled those in attendance for a reason beyond what we today can probably even pretend to comprehend or understand. He (the Holy Spirit) accomplished the will of the Father. The Father made those people understand. Not one, not two or three, but whole CROWDS of people from different countries, from different backgrounds, from different languages. Quote:
Ps*49:3 My mouth shall speak of wisdom; and the meditation of my heart shall be of understanding. Back at ya bro'.... :thup2 Quote:
I'd be careful where you tread here SF. I would leave the justification up to the Lord. Quote:
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No, I choose to believe in the Word and God. That I can understand. You, I can't.
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#20
11-27-2006, 03:46 PM
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I found a good site that addresses this charismatic way of "thinking" let the reader discern for themselves;
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/...gy/char/35.htm
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#21
11-27-2006, 04:06 PM
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Isaiah 28:9-13
9 "Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just drawn from the breasts? 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little." 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people, 12 To whom He said, "This is the rest with which You may cause the weary to rest," And, "This is the refreshing"; Yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the Lord was to them, "Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little," That they might go and fall backward, and be broken And snared and caught. This prophesy fullfilled in your ears, This vary day.... Obey Acts 2:38....
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-Steadfast :sheildsmi
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#22
11-27-2006, 04:22 PM
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We can prove who the LIAR is by just two scriptures.
There it is folks. Being born again has NOTHING to do with whether you speak in tongues or not. NOTHING!!!!! But our Lord and Savior is no LIAR. He tells us we will see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom. They cannot be there if they were not born again. And all of them died long before the tongue talking at Pentecost. Those who teach that you must talk in tongues to be born again are LIARS and have no clue as to what born again means. They are teaching you another way into the kingdom. They are teaching you another gospel. They are LIARS!
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Look for the good in people. And let the good in you be visible to them.
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#23
11-27-2006, 05:50 PM
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Who speaks lies.....?
And who has swallowed them? Let us see what the word tell us...about Who is a LIAR when it comes to being "BORN AGAIN" Galatians 1:6-9 6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. And what is the gospel the Apostils preached….? John 3:5-8 5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." Water= baptism in Jesus name Spirit= baptism of the Holy Spirit Sound= tongues the Apostils preached… Acts 2:1-4 1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. the Apostils preached… Acts 2:37-39 37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call." the Apostils preached… Acts 10:44-48 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. the Apostils preached… Acts 8:14-17 14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. the Apostils preached… Acts 19:1-6 1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." 3 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. 4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. (so much for the lie that says one receives the Spirit the moment you believe...) John 14:15-17 15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. Romans 8:9-11 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. The baptism of the Spirit evedenced by speaking in toungues IS the living water.... John 4:10-14 & 21-24 10 Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water." 11 "Sir," the woman said, "you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds?" 13 Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life." John 7:37-39 37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (So much for sissy's old testimate theory about Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob haveing been born again, applying today as an excuse to ignore obaying Acts 2:38...) Jeremiah 2:9-13 9 "Therefore I bring charges against you again," declares the Lord. "And I will bring charges against your children's children. 10 Cross over to the coasts of Kittim and look, send to Kedar and observe closely; see if there has ever been anything like this: 11 Has a nation ever changed its gods? (Yet they are not gods at all.) But my people have exchanged their Glory for worthless idols. 12 Be appalled at this, O heavens, and shudder with great horror," declares the Lord. 13 "My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water. Jeremiah 17:12-18 12 A glorious throne, exalted from the beginning, is the place of our sanctuary. 13 O Lord, the hope of Israel, all who forsake you will be put to shame. Those who turn away from you will be written in the dust because they have forsaken the Lord, the spring of living water. NOTHING you people believe about being "born again" mirrors what the Apostils preached… nothing, save the first step, repentance.... So, tell me, after reading exactly what the apostils preached...WHO is THE LIAR? Who here should be accursed for not preaching what the Apostils preached? And who here has been trying to proclaim the exact TRUTH, the Apostils preached? In light of these Scriptures, you have nothing! Nothing but the dead traditional religion handed down to you from your MOTHER...Mama Rome…...
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-Steadfast :sheildsmi Last edited by Steadfast : 11-27-2006 at 06:08 PM.
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#24
11-27-2006, 06:41 PM
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John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
To be “in the kingdom”, you do NOT have to speak in tongues. To be “born again”, you do NOT have to speak in tongues.
__________________
Look for the good in people. And let the good in you be visible to them.
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#25
11-27-2006, 11:07 PM
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Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. What is it this verse tells us to believe? That God HAS RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD. It is not possible to make that confession until after the resurrection. Am I saying that it took the resurrection of Christ to give us life and to deliver us from our sin nature. Yes, it took the death, resurrection and blood sacrifice of Christ to give us life. You can not believe that God has raised Jesus until after the fact. The new birth is a part of the new covenant, which was inaugurated by the blood of Christ. The new birth did not take place under the old covenant. Romans4:25 "Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification" Notice, how here again God ties in our justification with the resurrection. If not for the resurrection there would be no new birth. If not for the resurrection, a person could not fulfill the requirements for salvation as outlined in Romans 10. If not for the resurrection we would still be dead in our sins. I Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Without the resurrection, faith would be in vain, without the resurrection we would still be in our sins. It took the resurrection for man to have the new birth. Well, if the disciples couldn't be born-again until after the resurrection, let's look at what happens the first time that Jesus meets up again with His guys after He had risen. John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD. 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost The very first thing that Jesus did when He hooked up with His followers after the resurrection was to make sure that they received the Holy Ghost. Now that He was raised from the dead, they could fulfill Romans 10 and confess with the mouth unto salvation, and as SOON as that was available Jesus said "RECEIVE YE THE HOLY GHOST. At that moment, Peter and the rest of the team received the Holy Spirit and were born-again from above by the Spirit. The born-again experience became available in John 20. They were now new creatures in Christ, new wine skins, behold old things had passed away. The disciples received the Holy Spirit in John 20 upon Jesus' resurrection. That's when they were born again and received the indwelling Spirit. Notice, that when the disciples first received the indwelling Spirit, neither tongues, nor water baptism was involved. Hans
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#26
11-27-2006, 11:55 PM
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John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Except a man be born again,
Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom
Whatever "born again" is, it is something that ALL in the kingdom will have in common; otherwise they cannot be there at all.
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Look for the good in people. And let the good in you be visible to them.
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#27
11-28-2006, 08:03 AM
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until next time... see you later...
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-Steadfast :sheildsmi
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#28
11-28-2006, 11:52 AM
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Ummmm sissy, you should re-read Hebrews…the whole thing… a few times… For if you had read it you would know that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob found their redemption into the kingdom, by obedience to the law, thru blood of Animals, and that blood sacrifice was finally ratified thru the cross… Humanity, in their day, was under a whole different covenant, then humanity (us) after the cross… Thus, the door to the kingdom of God, thru the law was forever shut.. And the door to the Kingdom of God, thru Jesus Christ was opened to all who would become born again.... As proclaimed by the guy with the keys to that door, who was used to open that door on the day of Pentecost… And that guy was Brother Peter… when he said, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” So, stop trying to get into heaven by the now closed door of the law of Moses, For after the Cross and the out pouring of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost the door of the law became “some other way”… John 10:1 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. Why, oh why is it SO hard for you to simply Obey Acts 2:38?
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-Steadfast :sheildsmi Last edited by Steadfast : 11-28-2006 at 11:58 AM.
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#29
11-28-2006, 01:22 PM
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And if YOU would spend less time jabbering and more time reading, you would know that NO ONE makes it into the kingdom through the laws of Moses, because none kept the law. Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Neither did the blood sacrifices. Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Quote:
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That's why Jesus told Nicodemus that he (being an expert in the law and prophets) should have already known about being born again. John 3 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Nicodemus thought it was some new fangled thing that didn't exist before, just like YOU do. The way to be born again has existed since the foundation of the world. It is the only way to enter the kingdom. All the tongue talking in the world is not what saves. You are just like Nicodemus; you don't have a clue what born again means. Your distortion of the bible has never cut it here, and it never will while there is still a breath left in me. So take your deceptive one-track gospel somewhere else. Better yet, just shut-up about it till your eyes are opened so you won't be the blind leading the blind. You can't even quote Isaiah in the correct context. I bet you think it is the "good" guy speaking with stammering lips and another tongue. 
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Look for the good in people. And let the good in you be visible to them.
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#30
11-28-2006, 03:19 PM
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Far from it... on all accounts...
Your ignorance is amazing... but ichy ears leads to that... It is ironic that you call your selves "Jesus power", yet you deny Jesus and His true power, with every word you speak... Someday, this "one-track" witness, of the true Gospel, preached by the apostles themselves, will burn in your ears... That day, you and those like you, will Nash your teeth in regret, that you knew the narrow way, and spit God in the face by rejecting it... Thus, The only sign you and this wicked generation will have, of God's glory and truth in these matters, will be "the sign of Enoch!" Enjoy... the tribulation... Ooooh foolish Virgins... sigh... And weeping...Steadfast wipes the dust from his feet... This place is now Ichabod...
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-Steadfast :sheildsmi Last edited by Steadfast : 11-28-2006 at 03:39 PM.
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