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  #1  
Old 11-29-2006, 07:08 AM
Invisible_2_no1 Invisible_2_no1 is offline
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Default Christmas and Santa

Any opinions on the mall Santa telling children about Christ?

Allowable?

Or not?

Freedom of religion, or separation of religion and state? (mall considered "state" property?)
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2006, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_A_Mom
Any opinions on the mall Santa telling children about Christ?

Allowable?

Or not?

Freedom of religion, or separation of religion and state? (mall considered "state" property?)
For me this is not just black/white (or red/white) lol.

We are to obey the laws of the land, lest they are against God.

First, of all the diversity of children going to see Santa - I know some Christians who will tell there children who Santa is and they understand he is ficticious. Yet, they still have gifts from Santa or let their child visit with him.

Then you have children from non-believing families, does this only confuse them all the more? Would it turn out that God used ashes for beauty and used the child as a witness to the parents?

Also, I'm trying to imagine how this would transpire when a child goes to see Santa. Also, is not the mall corporately owned?

Well that is my penny with what info was given.
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  #3  
Old 11-29-2006, 11:58 AM
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First, the mall is not state so that silly church and state fiasco definitely doesn't apply here.

Second, freedom of speech does except that if the store the hired the Santa wishes to control their Santa they have the right.

Third, since it is not illegal for Santa to speak of Christ, and if the store has no problem, then there is no problems other than the ones made by parents that have issues.

Fourth,(because I wanted to keep going) :rofl The only issue I have with it is if the Santa is misrepresenting Christ in any way. As far as Santa, the store clerk, the rabbit, my neighbor, etc. misrepresenting Christ is always a possibility. So it still remains the parents duty to keep their kids informed properly.

At many churches and Christian schools they have Santa hand out gifts. But they always explain the real reason for the season and they teach the kids about the real Santa and that while he has nothing to do with Jesus, he has a giving spirit and there is nothing wrong with that.
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  #4  
Old 11-29-2006, 01:45 PM
Invisible_2_no1 Invisible_2_no1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Being Conformed
Then you have children from non-believing families, does this only confuse them all the more? Would it turn out that God used ashes for beauty and used the child as a witness to the parents?
Well, let's say that child believed that santa was real.

That his whispered wishes were truly going to appear as wrapped gifts under his tree.

Fast forward to a few years and that child finds out that santa isn't REAL, and that he's been conned into believing this holiday is about a man in a red suit that gives you your wishes.

Now he remembers that this guy told him about some guy he's never heard of that loves him and His name was Jesus.

Think the kid is going to give credit to anything that santa told him?

Or throw it all away with the LIE?
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2006, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JADE
Fourth,(because I wanted to keep going) :rofl The only issue I have with it is if the Santa is misrepresenting Christ in any way. As far as Santa, the store clerk, the rabbit, my neighbor, etc. misrepresenting Christ is always a possibility. So it still remains the parents duty to keep their kids informed properly.

At many churches and Christian schools they have Santa hand out gifts. But they always explain the real reason for the season and they teach the kids about the real Santa and that while he has nothing to do with Jesus, he has a giving spirit and there is nothing wrong with that.
So the santa that doesn't have his facts straight should take the santa/Christ quiz before sitting his old keester down on the chair?

Doesn't this alarm anyone?

That parents are letting their children converse with a public figure that may or may not tell their child a truth?

Cause I sure got alarmed.

Sure, my kids (which know that santa's not for real) would probably witness to the santa they were talking to.

But other kids, the one's without truth and light in their homes, might be getting false information.

And what about the muslim santa that wishes to express his views on the whole matter?

:SNEAKY SHIFTY LOOK:

And just where does Mrs. Claus fit into this fiasco I wonder?


Last edited by Invisible_2_no1 : 11-29-2006 at 01:51 PM. Reason: can't spell or type straight
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  #6  
Old 11-29-2006, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_A_Mom
Well, let's say that child believed that santa was real.

That his whispered wishes were truly going to appear as wrapped gifts under his tree.

Fast forward to a few years and that child finds out that santa isn't REAL, and that he's been conned into believing this holiday is about a man in a red suit that gives you your wishes.

Now he remembers that this guy told him about some guy he's never heard of that loves him and His name was Jesus.

Think the kid is going to give credit to anything that santa told him?

Or throw it all away with the LIE?
Okay, I'm confused (normal for me) If Santa is witnessing why is he lying at the same time?

Is this really happening?

Mrs. Claus I guess she becomes the bride of Christ

Well, I believed in Santa and believed in Jesus - sure I cried when I found out the truth - oh so that is why I'm so messed up still today. :rofl
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  #7  
Old 11-29-2006, 04:14 PM
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Like Jaded said whether it's Santa, his neighbor, him, a rabbit .... they could all given false testimony.

Have to trust God you have young and middle -aged (spiritually) Christians on the web and there are all sorts of false teachings about Christianity. :nond
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  #8  
Old 11-29-2006, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Being Conformed
Okay, I'm confused (normal for me) If Santa is witnessing why is he lying at the same time?

Is this really happening?
BC, Jade and I have carried this over from another conversation.

Yes, it's really happening.

The santa in question has some really weirded out ideas about salvation and Jesus.
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  #9  
Old 11-29-2006, 05:00 PM
Dan Bittleston Dan Bittleston is offline
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True Meaning Of Christmas

This is how it happened...I just finished the household chores for the night and was preparing to go to bed, when I heard a noise in the front of the house. I opened the door to the front room and to my surprise, Santa himself stepped out from behind the Christmas tree.

He placed his finger over his mouth so I would not cry out. "What are you doing?" I started to ask. The words choked up in my throat, and I saw he had tears in his eyes. His usual jolly manner was gone. Gone was the eager, boisterous soul we all know.

He then answered me with a simple statement.

"TEACH THE CHILDREN!"

I was puzzled; what did he mean? He anticipated my question, and with one quick movement brought forth a miniature toy bag from behind the tree. As I stood bewildered, Santa said, "Teach the children! Teach them the old meaning of Christmas. The meaning that now-a-days Christmas has forgotten."

Santa then reached in his bag and pulled out a FIR TREE and placed it before the mantle. "Teach the children that the pure green color of the stately fir tree remains green all year round, depicting the everlasting hope of mankind, all the needles point heavenward, making it a symbol of man's thoughts turning toward heaven."

He again reached into his bag and pulled out a brilliant STAR. "Teach the children that the star was the heavenly sign of promises long ago. God promised a Savior for the world, and the star was the sign of fulfillment of His promise."

He then reached into his bag and pulled out a CANDLE. "Teach the children that the candle symbolizes that Christ is the light of the world, and when we see this great light we are reminded of He who displaces the darkness."

Once again he reached into his bag and removed a WREATH and placed it on the tree. "Teach the children that the wreath symbolizes the real nature of love. Real love never ceases. Love is one continuous round of affection."

He then pulled from his bag an ornament of himself. "Teach the children that I, Santa Clause symbolize the generosity and good will we feel during the month of December."

He then brought out a HOLLY LEAF. "Teach the children that the holly plant represents immortality. It represents the crown of thorns worn by our Savior. The red holly represents the blood shed by Him."

Next he pulled from his bag a GIFT and said, "Teach the children that God so loved the world that HE gave HIS begotten SON... Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift. Teach the children that the wise men bowed before the Holy BABE and presented HIM with gold, frankincense and myrrh. We should always give gifts in the same spirit of the wise men."

Santa then reached in his bag and pulled out a CANDY CANE and hung it on the tree. "Teach the children that the candy cane represents the shepherds' crook. The crook on the staff helps to bring back strayed sheep to the flock. The candy cane is the symbol that we are our brother's keeper."

He reached in again and pulled out an ANGEL. "Teach the children that it was the angels that heralded in the glorious news of the Savior's birth. The angels sang 'Glory to God in the highest, on earth peace and good will toward men."

Suddenly I heard a soft twinkling sound, and from his bag he pulled out a BELL. "Teach the children that as the lost sheep are found by the sound of the bell, it should ring mankind to the fold. The bell symbolizes guidance and return."

Santa looked back and was pleased. He looked back at me and I saw that the twinkle was back in his eyes. He said, "Remember, teach the children the true meaning of Christmas and do not put me in the center, for I am but an humble servant of the One that is, and I bow down to worship HIM, our LORD, our GOD."

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  #10  
Old 11-30-2006, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_A_Mom
BC, Jade and I have carried this over from another conversation.

Yes, it's really happening.

The santa in question has some really weirded out ideas about salvation and Jesus.
Okay, I suspect I know 'whom' this is about and if I'm correct we don't know for certain that this person is actually playing a Santa. Did this come from 'another' board?
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  #11  
Old 11-30-2006, 04:51 AM
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Ohhhhhhhhh man!

Don't get me started on the ture meaning of that christmas tree again!!!
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2006, 04:59 AM
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Old 11-30-2006, 06:26 AM
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JAM,

I see your point about listening to a person who does not represent the absolute truth (such as Santa).

But, I will ask the same question asked on the other board:
“Where do you draw the line?”

If a parent does not represent the absolute truth at all times, should a child not listen when they speak of Christ?
If we wait to only listen to someone who has never lied, we may have a loooooong wait.

I suppose, like anything else, there can be extremes. That extreme (line drawn) will probably be different for each individual.
I did not look at my parents as liars when I found out there was no Santa; but some other child may.

It’s like I’ve always told my own children ----- no matter what they hear about Christ from me (or anyone), they should go about forming their own informed decision about Christ and not rely on someone else to form that decision for them.

I suppose I just have a hesitation about telling anyone (even a mall Santa) that they should not be speaking about Christ.
But then again, I just recently told Steadfast that he needed to shut-up!!!
Guess that was where this individual drew the line!
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2006, 06:37 AM
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Well, I guess that's why I brought the question up over here. I don't think that "line" was ever successfully drawn.

I am just shocked that a santa is an a position to "USE" his influence in that role to possibly spread more ilk with the santa lie.

While posing as a "light"...

Leading the little ones astray...

And in some cases I see things as very black and white. I don't agree at all with the santa stories, because I was one of those that wept (cried horribly) when I found out that santa was a lie, but I also am one that trusted my parents completely.

That year was a hard year for this mom.

To me, santa stirs up all kinds of disappointments and false promises.

I would think some child, not from a christian home that heard about Jesus the first time from the guy he gave his want list to, would chuck it all when he found out that the jolly guy isn't who he says he is. But, maybe not. Maybe a seed would be planted and the child would question and find more answers about Jesus.

And I agree Sissy, things should be presented to children, when they are old enough to handle this truth, that they always have a choice. God has made them an individual and with that comes freedom of choice. No one should be tricked into believing or following something against their will.
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Old 11-30-2006, 06:38 AM
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BTW, I LOVE the shocked little boy pic...ROFL!!!!
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